Origin of humans

zergl1ng · 2012-05-20T10:33:29.582193-07:00

I see what you did there.

zergl1ng · 2012-05-20T16:31:00.455451+00:00

That's fucking awesome, dude. Can you find a link with info on such ceramics?

zergl1ng · 1 day

MajorCock · 6 days

Some have suggested it's socialized religion which ultimately decays into a state of stagnation (Norway, UK), while free market religion flourishes (US - no taxes, no regulation).

zergl1ng · 6 days

I don't know, I was talking about prayers of gratefulness. Turns out these prayers are not much better either.

zergl1ng · 6 days

Well who came up with the idea that if something unpleasant happens then it has to be a punishment? It can be a "test", like in the case of Job.

zergl1ng · 6 days

It just makes it a tough sell

Why do people assume I'm trying to convince someone? I just ask myself these questions from time to time because I come from a Christian background and so to me it's like theorizing about LOST.

Here is an example where the God / Satan thing fails:

Coming back to the rain example, let's say you live in an area where water is rare. Rain is absolutely essential so your family and livestock don't starve, or so your crops don't fail.

After a long drought that could have killed you and your family, rain comes. You praise God, of course.

So there's this cycle of long, life-threatening droughts and divine intervention in the form of rain.

Who is responsible?

If God alone is responsible, he is only toying with you and your family. Pushing you to the edge of starvation so you'll have a reason to praise him.

If Satan is responsible for the drought, and God just comes in from time to time with the rain, is the situation improved in the slightest? God still makes way for Satan as soon as he is done with the miraculous intervention.

Getting us back to the original question: what is the point of praising God for the rain if he is also responsible for the drought, since it's claimed he has enough control of the situation to produce a miracle?

zergl1ng · 6 days

Education has a lot to do with what views one embraces.

I wasn't raised in the protestant atmosphere that focuses on having a personal relationship with the deity and on the conflict between God and Satan, which is common to many westerners.

I grew up with a traditionalist view of God, where he is the lord of all creation, is everywhere at all times, knows everything and can do anything, and people just have to go to to church, follow the rituals and that's it.

God was more a force of nature than a person and Satan was just there to scare old ladies by jumping out of the shadows.

So it's obvious I'd think of God as being behind every action, but I see why others would find this view strange and unfamiliar.

zergl1ng · 6 days

We exist in time, a construct He created, but God isn't bound by this.

I think this deserves more consideration. It's an issue I have given a lot of thought, because humans, too, experience only a single moment - the present one.

We never experience intervals of time, even though we have conventions such as seconds, minutes, years etc.

We are always "here and now". Which makes the prospect of immortality redundant, since that too will be just more of the same "here and now".

God created the world, and then our evil corrupted it.

Well, without discussing the whole Genesis story, couldn't a person living in a perfect world sprain an ankle? I mean surely the fact that wet rocks are slippery can't have anything to do with "our evil".

So a perfect human in the perfect garden slips on a wet rock and sprains an ankle. And it hurts. Wouldn't that still be "good"? Since God is omnipresent, wasn't God present in the wet rock too? Shouldn't this event be praised as yet another act of God worthy of praise?

we can't expect Him to spare us from the consequences of our actions.

This isn't about sparing anyone from consequences. It's about praising the bad experiences just as one praises the good ones. They all come from God, so they should all be worthy of gratefulness, no?

The idea was that there's no reason why one should be more enthusiastic about events that make one feel physically good than about the opposites. They should both be seen as acts of Jehovah, and thus praised equally.

zergl1ng · 6 days

I've always found the belief in Satan to be less-than-satisfactory, even when I was Christian. The idea of an Anti-God isn't particularly fleshed out in the Bible, rather Satan seems like one of God's many servants who takes care of the dirty jobs (temptation and accusation).

Revelation is distinct in this, but I didn't get the suggestion that "if something bad happens, it's from Satan".

I agree though, this is what many regular Xtians believe.

If you have a car crash, it's Satan wanting to make you angry at God. If you have a horrible car crash and survive, praise God for saving you from the jaws of death.

I guess it all hangs on whether this version Satan has free will or not. Can he act against God's will, or does God allow him to act?

If God allows him to act, the Christian gets back to the original issue: if God just fixed a problem he himself originated, is he worthy of praise?

zergl1ng

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