this post was submitted on
16 points (71% like it)
27 up votes 11 down votes

reddit is a source for what's new and popular online. vote on links that you like or dislike and help decide what's popular, or submit your own!

all 16 comments

[–]mooli 5 points6 points ago

Clicks link.

Read first word: "Hippies"

Closes tab.

[–]Will_Power 0 points1 point ago

Should I start closing tabs every time an article uses the term "deniers?"

[–]mooli -1 points0 points ago

If you like, although I tend to grit my teeth and soldier on through "warmist" and "alarmist".

"Hippies", though, is really, really stupid and bigoted.

[–]Will_Power 0 points1 point ago

"Hippies" is no more stupid nor bigoted than "denier" which is used to conjure memories of holocaust deniers.

[–]mooli 0 points1 point ago

No its not. It's a word. The only ones making the Nazi connection are those on the receiving end, godwinning themselves a victim clause. But that's why I don't use it myself, no matter how accurate it may be, because its a pointless distraction.

Hippies on the other hand is just... bizarre.

[–]Will_Power 0 points1 point ago

The only ones making the Nazi connection are those on the receiving end...

You are either naive or trying to intentionally mislead. There is no way you can speak for every user of the term on your side of the debate.

[–]mooli -1 points0 points ago

Nor you. Kind of painted yourself into a corner there.

[–]Will_Power 0 points1 point ago*

You fail logic once again. I never said all people on your side use "denier" in that way. I have seen the term used overtly with holocaust imagery by your side though.

[–]AlyssaMoore -1 points0 points ago*

"Hippies", though, is really, really stupid and bigoted.

Most hippies that I know proudly call themselves "hippies". I am friends with a few Rainbow Gathering types, I just usually stay silent when their discussions turn to the theory of catastrophic man-made global warming.

[–]AlyssaMoore 1 point2 points ago

How convenient for you (a global warming alarmist) that you chose not to read the article. Here is my favorite part of it:

"What the Heartland documents show is how badly warmists have been beaten by those with a fraction of the resources they’ve enjoyed.

Al Gore spent $300 million advertising the global warming hoax. Greenpeace, the WWF, the Sierra Club, The Natural Resources Defense Council, NASA, NOAA, the UN and nation states have collectively poured billions into climate research, alternative energies and propaganda, supported along the way by most of the broadcast and print media.

Yet they’ve been thwarted by a few honest scientists, a number of blogs and a small pile of cash from Heartland.

Here’s a clue for DeSmog, Joe Romm and other warmists enjoying a little schadenfreude today. It’s not the money that’s beating you, it’s the message.

Your climate fear-mongering backfired. You cried wolf so often the villagers stopped listening. Then Climategate I & II gave the world a peek behind the curtain into the shady practices, petty-feuding and data-manipulation that seems to pass for routine in climate ‘science’.

So enjoy the moment, warmists, because what this episode really demonstrates to the world is how little money was needed to bring the greatest scam in history to its knees. That’s not something I’d think you’d want to advertise, but knock yourselves out. It’s what you do best."

[–]JRugman -2 points-1 points ago

So enjoy the moment, warmists, because what this episode really demonstrates to the world is how little money was needed to bring the greatest scam in history to its knees.

You really think anthropogenic climate change a scam? If so, who's behind it? How many people are implicated? What are their motives and ultimate goals?

[–]JRugman -1 points0 points ago

You said in your previous comment that the section you quoted was your favourite part of the article, which implies that AGW is "the greatest scam in history".

Since you highlighted this as your favourite, I thought I'd ask you if you shared the belief that AGW was a scam. But you seem unable to answer a simple question, preferring to present a link to an article by a Forbes columnist, without explanation.

I'd still like to know if you agree that AGW is a "scam". But I think it's worth pointing out the flaws in the Warren Meyer article you linked to.

He states that the core theory of "catastrophic" man-made global warming justifies immediate and likely expensive government action. This is not part of the scientific consensus on climate change.

He lays out the core theory in a diagram of his own design, which contains the following statements:

Theory: Doubling CO2 directly increases temperatures by 1C

Well, it's actually nearer 1.2C, but close enough.

Theory: Feedbacks multiply this by 3x to 5x or more

The actual figures for equilibrium sensitivity are 2 - 4.5ºC, with a most likely value of 3ºC.

He suggests that increased plant growth would be a negative feedback; this is incorrect as the carbon absorbed by the plants as they grew would be emitted again as methane when they died and decomposed.

He suggests that increased water vapour would lead to increased clouds which would provide a negative feedback due to the increase in reflected sunlight; this is incorrect as there is little evidence to suggest that increased water vapour leads to more clouds, and clouds can act to trap heat as well as reflect it, so any feedback from clouds is just as likely to be positive as it is to be negative.

There is plenty of observed evidence to support positive feedbacks from increased water vapour, methane emissions from thawing permafrost, and reduced albedo from less summer snow and ice.

Observation: The world has warmed about 0.7ºC in the last century

He states that temperatures have been flat for the last 10-15 years, and are no longer climbing; this is incorrect as the trend for the last 10-15 years is statistically insignificant and cannot be determined with the neccessary confidence level.

He states that flat temperatures create a problem for the core theory; this is incorrect, since there are many causes of natural variability in the surface temperature record that could explain a short-term cooling trend, as has happened several times before, which in no way invalidate the warming effect of CO2.

Observation: All of this (and more) due to man-made CO2

The IPCC consensus actually states that most of the warming since 1950 is due to human activity.

He suggests alternative explanations for recent warming (the sun, ocean cycles, recovery from the LIA), all of which have been refuted in the peer-reviewed literature. A fourth source of warming - land-use change - is explicitly considered in the IPCC consensus, and in any case is still anthropogenic.

He states that we should already have seen 1.5C warming from CO2, implying that the warming effect is instantaneous, which is not part of the IPCC consensus.

He states that the cooling effect of sulphate aerosols is an assumption, whereas it is in fact supported by observed evidence.

In summary, he states that skeptics "argue that the theory of strong climate positive feedback is flawed, and is greatly exaggerating the amount of warming we will see from man-made CO2" and that they are "simultaneously denying that most or all of past warming is man-made, and arguing instead that the amount that is natural and cyclic is being under-estimated". But the evidence supporting these positions is incredibly weak, and it's only by denying the vast collection of evidence supporting the consensus that those arguments can be made.

[–]SelfproclaimedGenius 1 point2 points ago

Observation: The world has warmed about 0.7ºC in the last century

He states that temperatures have been flat for the last 10-15 years, and are no longer climbing; this is incorrect as the trend for the last 10-15 years is statistically insignificant and cannot be determined with the neccessary confidence level.

It has actually not risen since 1999 when you factor in natural climate change...it has risen 0.0C so.. the earth has not been warming in the last 13 years do to green house gases . Im not denying global warming but, that part of your argument is completely false.

[–]JRugman -1 points0 points ago

It has actually not risen since 1999 when you factor in natural climate change...it has risen 0.0C so.. the earth has not been warming in the last 13 years do to green house gases

Which temperature record are you taking these figures from? Because GISTEMP, HADCRUT3 and BEST all show warming since 1999.

And how have you distinguished the proportion of global surface temperature change from natural influences from that of GHGs? 1998 was a very strong El Nino year, so it's no surprise that temperatures for subsequent years were lower. But that doesn't mean that the warming influence of GHGs has gone away. A recent paper that accounts for the known natural influences on temperature (Foster and Rahmstorf 2011 shows a clear and consistent warming trend of around 0.17 degrees per decade between 1979 and 2010.

[–]SelfproclaimedGenius 0 points1 point ago

The resultant adjusted data show clearly, both visually and when subjected to statistical analysis, that the rate of global warming due to other factors (most likely these are exclusively anthropogenic) has been remarkably steady during the 32 years from 1979 through 2010. There is no indication of any slowdown or acceleration of global warming, beyond the variability induced by these known natural factors.

This is a direct quote from the article...again it says there is no influence of any slowdown or acceleration of globing warming BEYOND THE VARIABILITY INDUCED BY THESE KNOWN NATURAL FACTORS. Keyphrase there being nactural factors. And as far as the warming trend from 1979, yea the earth did warm up since 1979 but it stopped. I believe from 98 to 99 the earth heated up but it fell back to temperatures from 1998 ..gain im not denying global warming but, this research paper proved my point that GHGS have no direct correlation with global warming.